Gays and the Church

[Tiberius]

They are wasting their time because they don't believe in the church doctrine yet are there in their rainbow sashes trying to make a political statement.

And okay, yeah, I suppose if I did go to a communion I'd be initally accepted because they wouldn't know I didn't quite hold the same beliefs. It doesn't matter though, I wouldn't want it because I'd feel like a hypocrite. I've been dragged along to church services before by Christian friends in the past. When the time came for communion, I sat still, and let them do their thing.

It's still discrimination...no matter which way you look at it...the question is whether the Church is right (entitled?) to do it.

Yep, it is discrimination, I agree, but (a) it's not illegal [churches and clubs are allowed to discriminate to some degree under the law] and (b) homosexuals are allowed to enter a church and be part of it. I'd say most Christians would welcome them (well, stupid fundi American ones aside). Thing is, most homosexuals are not likely to like what they hear regarding their chosen sexuality. *shrugs* So it's their choice to go or not go, but I don't know why'd they want to go. It'd be like FatherShark joining a "wymen's feminist group". um, sorta

[hawaiianrobot]

I think the church is entitled to refuse them, after all there is no law stopping them is there?
Like Fathershark said, the bible is a book written by people, and the church is a congregation of the people.
A congregation that is also governed by a forty year old canon law that probably will not be changed for a good 50 odd years....

If my religion denied me the right of practising it to the full extent, I think I would look at a different religion that would fit me as a person. I wouldn't be able to practise something that was against what I am about.

[hawaiianrobot]

sorry...it hasn't been changed for 40 years, it isn't 40 yrs old

[fathershark]

Tiberius said:

It'd be like FatherShark joining a "wymen's feminist group". um, sorta

Which I'm actually currently in the process of doing. I can't think of a better way to meet women........

[dirtgirl]

The issue of gays in the church and the role of women in the church I think hits at the heart of the schism of religious dogma. On the one hand, Scripture explicitly says to love your neighbour as yourself - that is show understanding and tolerance to ALL people regardless, yet on the other hand various passages, particularly in the old testament rave on pretty harshly about the sins of homosexuality etc... It just doesn't bloody make sense! I agree wholeheartedly with Fathersharks's views that the church is a human institution and the discrimination and bigotry observed is therefore human in origin. And that's why it doesn't make sense, because people don't make sense.

And just because this discrimination is legally sanctioned, does it make it morally right? I don't think so. I think this is the crux of the issue - what is the correct moral answer? That I think answer to that lies in the heart of each one of us.

[Tiberius]

I don't smoke. I have to say I find the concept of sucking down nicotine a little gross. But I have friends that smoke. Anyone who bashes, attacks, or ostracises a smoker is morally wrong. Smokers are people too. However, I still don't like the concept of smoking, and I don't believe I should have to even if society as a whole is comfortable with the idea of smoking. Last time I checked, we live in a democracy. The idea of that being that everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint even if that viewpoint is not the politically correct popular opinion.

It's all fine and dandy to preech tolerance but to then bag out a religious group's beliefs because it's not the same as yours seems a little shaky.

you do not have a monopoly on the truth

I'd hate to think that we live in a world where everyone must think the same.


Anyway, peace.

[Glen]

Tiberius said:

you do not have a monopoly on the truth

Oooohh, very slick

[Kristy]

Do you view homosexuality as a habit or addiction? which smoking is. Everyone mustnt think the same, but i do think that treating everyone as equals, regardless of sexuality, is a nice concept. Although apparently i am in the minority when thinking that.

[dirtgirl]

Last time I checked, your sexuality was a predetermined thing, it's intrinsic to who you are. It's not something you choose to do like smoke. If you are gay it's because that is what you are. It's not a question of choice. And that's why the discrimination is wrong. It's like picking on blue eyed people...

[Tiberius]

dirtgirl said:

Last time I checked, your sexuality was a predetermined thing, it's intrinsic to who you are. It's not something you choose to do like smoke.

Well, that's a matter of contention. I'm not sure what I think though. I guess the concept of homosexuality confuses me. From a biological point of view, it doesn't make sense. I mean, yes I obviously realise that sex isn't just about reproduction, but even so, that is its main biological function. So why would nature create a group of people that through their attraction to the same gender are incapable of naturally making children? The only logical explanation I can come up with, is that maybe homosexuality is an evolutionary redundancy designed to purposely make a certain percentage of people infertile and prevent the world's population from becoming too large.

[singingcirclesaway]

we could argue all day about whether you choose your sexuality or not. pointless battle. i fully believe you're born homosexual or heterosexual, but bisexuality is another kettle of fish altogether. what do you guys think about that? i think bisexuality is more of a choice.

[dirtgirl]

Possibly. It's a bit like wanting your cake and eating it too. And that can be very unfair for those caught up in the rip tide. Sorry I'm just rambling...

[singingcirclesaway]

well, personally, i think there's no point having cake if you can't enjoy it's chocolately goodness too.

[fathershark]

in an uncharacteristic show of restraint, I am going to leave that last post alone...........

[Kristy]

I'm really not sure on this one! I'm not convinced it's a choice. Well i know it isn't for me. I personally think it would be fantastic if we could all fall in love with anyone, regardless of gender, but having said that i could never have anything more than a platonic realtionship with a female. If that makes sense.