Ashamed to be Australian

[Friendly]

What i just wrote probably sounds pretty ignorant, but its hard to write about this topic, as a vocal discussion it would be much easier. Rendered pointless wrote that changing our visa system will help things, she doesn't realise that its not our system that is causing the refugee influx, it is their countries of origin, so us changing our system is not going to affect the number of asylum seekers entering our country.

Another point it costs a lot of money to care for these refugees, money collected from our tax. The more they cause trouble the more money spent on them.The refugees probably get more money spent on them then homeless people and homeless children who are citizens of this country and basically have only charity's helping them. This sounds pretty ignorant but i don't mean it in a bad way.

Or maybe its just Phillip Ruddock, everything he's worked on has turned into a shit storm, maybe he's cursed. Get him to work on the Liberal campaign next election, so Johny can get the boot  

[indecision]

Friendly, I think you will notice that Rendered Pointless is a he, not a she.

[hugo_b]

right i have to step back into this...

these guys are NOT refugees they are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

you have to remember that they have been to many countries before this and just been turned away flat. they are world travelers. and they do have lots of money behind them, and i'm sure that they could have found somewhere else to go, but no, after all those other places turned away WE took them in (eventually) and how have they thanked us? by making shallow threats of suicide. haha and i was sure they wouldnt go through with that, and they didnt.

i still have to say unless they start showing some dicipline and thanks for being even allowed in the country, i think that we have far more important issues to deal with (like poverty stricken aussies as was pointed out) than rolling out the red carpet for some recalcitrant, violent rich people.

do i sound like enough of an arsehole yet? please though, if you dont know what recalcitrant means i suggest you go look it up. it sums up what i think of these guys pretty well.

[larry emdur is my hero!]

You ask "how have they thanked us", why should there be any thanks in the first place?  They are upholding their right as an international citizen.  

these guys are not ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, these people are asylum seekers - a legal status under international law.  

Australia are a part of the Refugee Convention, one of many countries who have agreed to take refugees in.  They come to australia because it is one place where they thought they had a realistic chance of being let in.  These so called "world travelers" are in many cases fleeing poverty or oppresive governments - the "lots of money behind them" is often pooled by relatives and communities who see the value in the one chosen escaping to a better life.  

[Orange_Sherbert]

eddievedder said:

You ask "how have they thanked us", why should there be any thanks in the first place?  They are upholding their right as an international citizen.  <br>

I don't think they should have to "Thank Us", but they certainly shouldn't be having such violent protests, it doesn't make them seem to grateful, or happy to be here.
I agree that the conditions of the detention centres need to be improved, and if people campained for this to happen ( in a more conducted manner!), then I wouldn't see anything wrong with that-the Govt probably needs a bit of a kick up the arse there. (but keeping in mind that our much needed tax dollars are paying for this, they can't be expecting 5 star accommodation).
But I think at the moment things are just way out of control-and it's not like Australia won't be making sacrifices to allow all these people in. Most of them will probably end up on welfare-not through fault of their own, but because there simply aren't any jobs, especially for someone coming from a background where the majority wouldn't have had opportunity to get the greatest education or skills. This is going to cost our country a lot, and we are allowing people in (yes-not all, and yes, not easily, but we're not just turing our backs either). Yet all you ever seem to hear is complaining.
So I don't think these people  have to thank anyone, but maybe some people need to keep things in perspective a little more than they have been.

[Kristy]

Ok im really sorry to frag this up but i just wanted to put in my 2cents worth basically everything eddie said is what i was going to say but i just wanted to comment on a few extra things. Orange sherbet mentioned that the refugees are not likely to find employment and this is probably mainly true but the government does nothing to help i believe that with the temp protection visa which last 3yrs the refugees, as they are not considered citizens, are not entitled to welfare benefits or any help in gtting english classes. surely if the gov is going to let refugees in it makes sense to help them help themselves get employment. they are much more likely to be employed if they can actually speak english. obvioulsy the gov is trying to get out of its obligations under the convention. on another note about the stolen generation i refuse to belive the gov was doing what they 'believed was right' because in i think early-mid 1900s??? their was a psychologist who made a real breakthrough about childhood seperation (john bowlby) from their parents at this the aus gov was doing everything in its power to keep white children and parents together. the gov was doing what they thought was right for them and the white population. and considering this continued until the early 1970s or 1980s?? surley 20 yrs ago people could not have honestly believed this was still right? in the words of my politics tutor it took 20 yrs before someone took us out of the 50s (gough whitlam) and it took another 30 for john howard to put us straight back there. one more thing on the refugees as was mentioned why is it that the real illegial immigrants (people that overstay their visas) those people that come here for a holiday and stay and do not present themselves to the authorities are not talked about? possibily because they are mainly white. bcuz there are alot more of them then there are refugees. and also if the refugees complained about conditions quietly do you really think anyone would do anything? if what is happening is not in the media people will be even more iggorant. i think thats all for now hope this makes sense cuz i cant be bothered to reread.

[Muzzy Pepped]

Exactly. The protests are what has brought so much media attention to the problem in the first place. This is important because it means the public will now start to pressure the government to find a solution.

[fathershark]

I'm so saddened that the majority of Australian's seem to be in full support of the so called "Pacific Solution". It is difficult for me to understand that such a large proportion of my peers are uncaring, uncompassionate dolts.

[Kristy]

i think (i hope) it has a lot to with people believing what they are told by johnny or the daily telegraph or current affair. i hope that that is the case and that the general australian population arent isnt just uncaring?!

[fathershark]

People who believe everything that they read are also dolts. This makes me tres sad.

[Kristy]

yeah i agree, i would just rather believe that then believe that majority of australians are heartless and selfish. my friends dad thinks that the general australian population are stupid because they dont question what they are told. i mean people are still using the argument that why should we let them in they jumped queues, thanks to johnny and philip, hello THERE ARE NO QUEUES. the media is a double edged sword they make what is going on public but they do it with so much contempt. after the riots at the detention centres the pictures were on philips website with no explantion just under the heading 'pictures of destruction at woomera' i just hate the way the media and politicans play the general population!  

[singingcirclesaway]

i don't see why, when their boats get into our waters, they can't replenish their supplies and turn them right around to head home again.

but that's just me.

[somethingforkaty]

Holding these people in poor conditions is inhumane YES, and they do deserve better treatment...

If it's good enough to build shelters for people coming here by boat for whatever reason from other countries - we should be looking after our homeless Australian people. They too have come from bad backgrounds.. young kids forced to leave home because of violence.

While the protests the refugees have participated in have got them widespread attention, i don't think it will help them get any sympathy from the government. The media is never ever objective. You see things the way they want you to - the riots etc have given the government the chance to paint them out as ungrateful troublemakers.

"i mean people are still using the argument that why should we let them in they jumped queues"

it's probably just easier for people to say 'fuck them!' instead of have compassion for someone else's situation or find resolution for a problem.

[Kristy]

i do agree that the government should be doing more for homeless people the government should be doing more for a lot of people i wasnt saying i thought the boat people should be top priority BUT if australia does not want to accept refugees as far as i know they can remove themselves from the convention, my point is that wether the general public likes it or not the australian government has an obligation to refugees. regardless of how much we want refugees here or not. which is the exact reason we cant replinish their supplies and send them 'home' people seem to forget what alot, and im sure there are people that arent as genuine refugees as others, have bn through. of cuz they are not going to get sympathy from the gov who does? but it might make even a few people relaise what is going on and eventually, although unlikely, the gov may be pressured into doing something about it. im not trying to change anyones mind, because i know that is not likely to happen with this topic, i used to have the same opinion until i actually found out the facts. but i am still interested in knowing why alot of people have so much contempt for 'boat people' and not illegal immigrants (overstayers)?

[singingcirclesaway]

why did you put it as 'home'? are you saying australia is now their home, or something? because that is utter bullshit.

i feel compassion for these people, but it's not our place to step in and let them all live here or anything. we have enough problems with johnny in power as it is.