Life is but a joke...

[singingcirclesaway]

i must admit, some employees are a bit dodgy - one guy came into work one day quite stoned and put his whole hand into the vats full of hot oil. left a whole lot of skin behind too. another time a guy slipped in the freezer and split his head open. its understandable that you can slip in there (ive done it a million times) which cant be very good beause its generally -20*C in there and the door is quite heavy and shuts right behind you. but as it turned out when managers went to inspect there were tomatoes thrown against the walls and such, so this guy was obviously being stupid when it happened.

that reminds me of one time i was opening a huge tin of beetroot with a really dodgy can-opener, and i spilt the whole tin on myself. you shouldve seen the managers faces and gasps of horror when i came out completely red. they thought id stabbed myself or something. ;D

[dirtgirl]

Good to see maccas put employee safety first...  

Another good reason to avoid like the plague anything to do with crass comericalisation (sp).

So young, so cynical captain.  Just wait until you start working in the big nasty corportatist (sp) world, you'll soon be asking for the twisities as well...  ;D

[luceluna]

LMAO! you're calling CATPAIN cynical, dirtgirl? his post was a helluva lot more balanced than yours have been in this thread. nowhere did he use an angry face or try to argue that the debate was black and white. then you come along and reply by insulting his "youth" and "cynicism"? i have no idea how old Captain is, but he argues just as eloquently as you do. and nowhere did he state that he hasn't worked for a multinational. the fact that he's typing on a computer made, no doubt, with cheap labour in Asia, makes him just as equipped to discuss the points rasied in this thread as you. if you want to refute his statements, come up with something better than hollow jabs about age and tone.

[dirtgirl]

YES SIR!!!

*DG resumes the position and takes her punishment accordingly*  

I think a few boys here need to take a cold shower or something (re this thread and Britney) , i'm just stirring the pot for my own amusement here. FOR FUCK'S SAKE LIGHTEN UP!!!  

[Captain BJ]

Yes DG I understand. It's chic to talk left-wing these days. It's cool to be the minority lashing out against authority.

The Green Day song just made sense. It was being sarcastic. Or maybe it's just my interpretation.

I work for Safeway, which was a corporation last I checked. And I'm 21 thankyou.

Just checked cynical in the dictionary:
cynical - adj.
1. believing the worst of others esp. that all acts are selfish
2. sarcastic, mocking
3. showing contempt for accepted standards esp. of honesty and morality

I have been sarcastic in this reply because I'm shitty now, but I'd be delighted to see where else I have been "cynical".

Also see my most recent post on Britney as for the "lighten up etc." comments.

[luceluna]

nice that you equate our attempts at debate with our need for cold showers, dirtgirl. another attempt to turn us into hairy, hormone-driven ape men, eh?

[dirtgirl]

This isn't about left wing chic.  Why does corporatistism break my heart? Just ask the 16,000 people looking for work after the collapse of Ansett.  And the people who worked for one tel, pasminco, etc....  If you have gone through a similiar ordeal to these poor souls, then maybe you can understand my rants.  It is about the human tragedy, the stress, the death of dreams, the loss of hope for the future and all in the name of the dollar... And you never really recover...I can't and won't apologise for being emotional about this...there just has to be a better way.

[spongeboy]

whats the punch line?



it all seems pretty futile when you consider the destruction of the universe....

check out www.opencola.org , its an open source coke clone site - make your own coke and what not. There is some weird flavours added to it.

i personally don't drink it because i don't like the taste.

i think maybe we need to either ban marketing, or standardise it. Like have every single product with the same packaging, but labelled clearly with the makers name. Then all the drug fucked marketing executives could found an art revolution, and companies would suceed based on quality and price, which would generally be cheaper due to no marketing costs.

the tv mentioned the other day a victorian bus company using conola oil to replace disiel, at 110% of the cost of desiel for 30% less emissions (and conola is renewable...so is deisel, but we need continental pressure, decayed green matter and a few million years....)

i don't want to start any blasperous rumours, but i think that god has got a sick sense of humour.



<ali g voice> for real </ali g voice>

[luceluna]

ban/standardise marketing? if you don't wanna pay attention to marketing, DON'T! it's a company's perrogative to advertise, as it is an individual's right to express themselves in any way they feel like. if you don't like it, don't pay attention! otherwise it's like you're saying, "oh gosh, i hate marketing and corporations so much, i'm really angry. but of course, i don't have the power to ignore advertising and marketing. poor me - i must be being brainwashed by these evil companies (because i am so angry about thse issues, and i would do anything possible to stand by my convictions)! i know! let's ban their advertising! then i don't actually have to have any strength in my convictions, and can move onto the next fashionable moral issue!"

and dirtgirl, companies go bust all the time. first you're complaining that big companies drive little ones out of business, then you're complaining when big ones go bust themselves. are you really just angry that not every company in this world, big or small, can survive? or are you merely looking for reasons to hate big companies? ("nasty companies, driving little ones out of business! i wish they'd go bust themselves! oh, wait, i hate it when big companies go bust, too! i know! let's ban the big companies all together!")

the fact is that workers will always lose their jobs, in companies of any size. some companies will go bust, plain and simple. ansett wasn't money-hungry enough, or it didn't cut enough corners. it went bust. survival of the fitest will occur on ANY scale, not just when corporate power is involved. i'm not saying it's not tragic when people lose their jobs - i'm saying that linking it back to evil capitalism ad nauseum is missing the reality: if you don't offer the best package, you don't make it. survival. sad, but true.

of course, if the world decided to stop supporting substandard multinationals, this probem wouldn't occur as much and we'd have lots of smaller companies providing better service and working conditions. but of course, we don't have the courage to stand by our non-exploitative convictions, do we?

[dirtgirl]

I don't know what your background is luceluna but have you ever been working for a company when mass redundacanices (sp) have been implemented? The stress and fear this places on people is immense and it REALLY /b] affects you and your family and community.  And the process may go on for years, not just months.  And it seems random - why does one survive and equally good others not?  I wasn't surprised to hear 3 former Ansett employers had commited suicide due to the stress, i understand.  I find your comments extremely hard hearted.  

There has to be better ways of doing things, a point of equilibrium must be reached.  I'm not entirely sure how this can be achieved.  Perhaps from within the system itself how knows?  Im just trying to make sense of it for myself and I admit i don't know the answers.  But people like Ralph Nader and his like sure make a hell of a lot of sense to me right now...

[somethingforkaty]

i agree with luceluna on this one

definetely survival of the fittest. Qantus ran a tighter ship, so good for them. you cant really expect businesses to all live equally and happily together? we rely on the competition between companies to bring us better service/prices etc.

i understand that families would be heartbroken etc but what can be done? ansett went out of business. so now the government has to spend money funding an unprofitable business? if an entrepreneur had of thought it couldve been salvaged they would have bought it i suppose, but they have to let go for gods sake! they recieved their entitlements [unlike the ppl from one tel... well i think anyway] and now they need to move on.

another issue: prices rise from qantus pretty much having a monopoly

[spongeboy]

deregulation often leads to less competition.

survivial of the fittest also means the destruction of the weak.

the natural state of a free market is an oligopoly.

why not ban advertising? the whole aim is just to hoodwink people. why not just let the product do the talking, rather than flashy promos. Survival of the best product or survival of the best ad campaign?

do you care that when you buy a dominos pizza that the profits are going to an avowed anti abortionist?
do you care that when you buy fuel from Shell that it has Nigerian blood added?

is potential future price rises from qantas reflective of the true price?

[Captain BJ]

Without the advertising dollars, we would not have free-to-air TV. There's jobs gone. We wouldn't have a lot of sport. I'm not just talking about the $1m sponsorship of Essendon, but also about Joe's Pizza sponsoring the local tennis club. They have to buy balls and pay their electricity bills and all that stuff. There's more, but I have to go and work for a corporation in 15 mins

Shit Luceluna, how the hell do you know so much?

[dirtgirl]

Luceluna must work for ASIO   (how's my file going?)

I'm not entirely anti-advertising (you have to know about stuff somehow).  I'm just offended at the subliminal, submersive and unbiquitious nature of the stuff (ie it is the concept of branding (MOO??) which is offensive!)  ;D  I'd like some free moments in my own head occassionally...

I 100% agree with Spongey  

another issue: prices rise from qantus pretty much having a monopoly

 You can add mergers and aquisitions (sp) to spongeys list of factors which reduce competiton, lead to monopolies and cartels and lead to negative outcomes for all as per Katy's example (ie Air NZ's take over of Ansett lead to this debarkcle in the first place!!!)

Unfortuntately katy's right though; sad but true it is a dog eat dog world.  Has something to do with human frailty i think... (maybe there are no answers to these conundrums because humans are intrinsically fucked up  )

[luceluna]

lol, katy's right but i'm not, eh?  

i'm not disputing the awfulness of mass redundancy at all. just saying that you can't have it both ways - get shitty at corporations for driving smaller businesses to redundancy, then get shitty at corporations for going bust themselves.

spongeboy: "survivial of the fittest also means the destruction of the weak."

yes, that's true. are you arguing now that we should protect weaker products/services simply because they're weak? we're not talking about caring for the disabled here (a modern deviation from the 'survival of the fittest' model): we're talking about inferior products that people don't buy any more because they're weaker. are you blaming qantas for "marketing" ansett out of business? or did ansett simply not have what it took to provide the best all-round product (as katy said)?

dear,dear dirtgirl: "I'm just offended at the subliminal, submersive and unbiquitious nature of the stuff... I'd like some free moments in my own head occassionally..."

then don't let it affect you. stop relying on advertised products. don't watch TV. don't use the internet. live in your own head.

my point here is that, to be part of "modern society", you have to allow yourself to be exposed to it. our modern society is made up of many things - politics, arts, morality, advertising, products. it's natural for people with something to "add" to society (whether that's music or a political viewpoint or Coca Cola) to advertise it. and while it may be easier to filter out politics or a genre of music than it is to filter out advertising, it is certainly far from impossible. surely someone as cyncial as yourself would be able to resist "subliminal" messages about the wonders of deep-fried food and sugar-ladened drinks made under exploitative conditions, dirtgirl?